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Joined: Dec 17, 2004 Posts: 3 Location: Clovis, CA
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: January 8 post "How to win a fist fight"
I think that's a great idea! I've never been in a fight, but it would be useful to know. Maybe illustrations followed by a live action shot of the actual punch? Might have trouble finding a volunteer for that though
Joined: Feb 07, 2002 Posts: -21475 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:11 am Post subject:
I've actually gotten a bit of email on this... So I'm doing it.
Should be done tonight. I'm thinking of cross-posting between MI and my journal... Even though it's not MI-material, the Rules of the Gym did quite well here.
maggot_hex Dug through LoDT and found an old thread with usercodes and XBox Live names of MI users so that people would have this information readily available. This makes Maggot_Hex a true hero in every sense of the word. Be sure to let him know how much you appreciate his digging through LoTD to find that thread so that you could post into it and read the names of other MI users who have handles on gaming networks, because he deserves the praise and accolades.
Joined: Feb 11, 2006 Posts: 6624 Location: Federal Way, WA
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject:
shouldn't that be how to actually win a fist fight, not acutally? _________________ This post brought to you by Petty Revenge: When not being a jerk just won't do.
Thought you guys might enjoy people's opinions who are trained. I thought the article was good, with a few things to say:
- When throwing punches it is SUPER important not to throw your elbow back as to get more power. This makes punches easy to avoid. Fists go straight from your stance forward, and twist those hips.
- In an untrained street fight you will end up in 'a clinch' a lot. Control the head, throw some knees.
- I would not go for the eyes. Fingering eyes is SUPER effective but long term damaging. If you do it, he might. If he is not going for them, I wouldn't, wearing a few punches in nothing compared to eye damange. Even with no long term damage, they will hurt for days afterwards.
edit: one last thing about going to ground. keep in mind if you are down there and start winning, you are likely to get stomped by either
a) his friends
b) good samaritan's who always assume the winner of the fight is the instigator
in other words - get off ground asap
Joined: Feb 07, 2002 Posts: -21475 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:00 am Post subject:
Nice disco! thanks for passing that along!
I consider myself a "trained" martial artist, in that I have played judo enough to get a black belt. I've also worked with a number of different fighters / trainers in a number of different styles, so i've picked up a few things as life has gone along.
The intended audience for this article are people for whom fighting is a last resort, or people who tend to get bullied. These people are walking into situations where they are either fighting other untrained - but more aggressive - individuals, and any edge is going to mean the difference between being pummeled and possibly walking away the victor.
The advice given is intended to minimize thought and accident. Solid base. Straight punches. Chin to chest. It all feels basic and like "common sense" because it is... The problem is, it's even more "common" sense to avoid fighting, so the fact that you've found yourself in one is already one point against the "commonness" of common sense.
If you can take even one or two of these points into battle with you, you've closed the gap between success and failure. Even if it's just by a little, it's help.
A lot of trained guys are going to react to this (or have reacted to this) by questioning why I've advised against kicks, knees, elbows, hooks, uppercuts, etc - Someone on Reddit asked why am I advising the elbows be pointed SLIGHTLY outward?? A boxer would give you a solar plexus knockout!
What feels "basic" or common sense to anyone with training - even 6 months worth - just isn't basic. It's trained. That's the reason I didn't start telling people how to deflect an incoming punch with the left forearm sweeping upwards, then underhooking the opponent's extended arm with your right arm, placing your right hip on his, and performing O Goshi, Hane Goshi, or Seoi Nagi.
Basic throws. You learn them the week after you learn how to take a fall. I could do them in my sleep, and they work VERY well in real life fight situations, because it ends the fight FAST. But I'm not EVER going to advise to a beginner or novice that they use them... The context is all wrong, they won't have the drilling or training to do them, and they'll just plain get hurt.
Human nature combined with small hints and advice. That's my goal here - to get the untrained guy out of the situation as the winner.
I really liked your article. Very nice tips. But there was just one thing that bugged me:
You've written of three moves that can be done when someone has grabbed you from behind. I've heard of another move being done in such a situation; hitting the person in the stomach with your elbow. I'd like you to tell me if this is right or wrong.
Hey Joe. I basically signed up on this forum to ask a few questions you didn't answer and I'd like to know.
1) Which point exactly on your fist should rendezvous with their face? I was under the impression that it was the knuckles of your middle, ring and pinky for some reason. And, my brother (Who is older than I am) says this is very bad, and that you should try to make contact with your index and middle knuckle, lest you want to break your wrist. Could you confirm or deny this?
2) Plus, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like you to suggest to me some deeper targets to aim for instead of "whatever I can land". A nose will definitely bring a normal inexperienced man down pretty fast, and a throat is pretty much good game for him (But these aren't the easiest targets) Where do you tend to aim for?
3) Uhm... I knew there was a third one, but I can't think of it at the time of typing this out. If I figure it out, I'll edit it in...
I'll try to remember to check this out later when if I can remember to. It'll probably be answered by then anyways. Savvy?
Joined: Feb 07, 2002 Posts: -21475 Location: Atlanta, GA
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:32 am Post subject:
Two replies in one post:
First, know that EVERYTHING I've written and will write on this subject comes from my own personal opinion and experience, and that there are as many opinions on these subjects are there are people discussing them.
That said:
msylvester wrote:
I really liked your article. Very nice tips. But there was just one thing that bugged me:
You've written of three moves that can be done when someone has grabbed you from behind. I've heard of another move being done in such a situation; hitting the person in the stomach with your elbow. I'd like you to tell me if this is right or wrong.
Thanks.
Thanks! The reason I don't mention elbows to the midsection is that 99 times out of 100, there simply will not be enough room to actually land a blow strong enough to get free. Try having a friend wrap his or her arms around your chest or waist and attempt to toss you from side to side (not hard - just light enough to maybe lift you off one foot or move you a few inches to the side). Take notice how much room exists between your back or butt and their gut.
It takes a good bit of force to knock the wind out of someone, and it's hard to do if you're hitting a pot belly, or the side of the ribcage, or the side of the abdomen, etc. It's FAR more effective to stomp the instep, headbutt backwards and wring the fingers. You need to be doing these 3 actions fast and repeatedly. No time for elbows to the gut, and not enough effectiveness for it to be worth spending the time on.
Khan wrote:
1) Which point exactly on your fist should rendezvous with their face? I was under the impression that it was the knuckles of your middle, ring and pinky for some reason. And, my brother (Who is older than I am) says this is very bad, and that you should try to make contact with your index and middle knuckle, lest you want to break your wrist. Could you confirm or deny this?
I'd avoid hitting with the pinky in any way possible. You'll break your pinky.
I'd try to get the middle knuckle on my target, and whatever other knuckles make contact, let them. I don't know that you'd *necessarily* break your wrist from index and middle knuckle contact, but it seems that if you landed only on your index knuckle, you'd bend the wrist downward and collapse your hand in on itself.
All of that said... Land what you can, where you can I wouldn't keep individual knuckles in mind when fighting, it'll just be distracting.
Khan wrote:
2) Plus, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like you to suggest to me some deeper targets to aim for instead of "whatever I can land". A nose will definitely bring a normal inexperienced man down pretty fast, and a throat is pretty much good game for him (But these aren't the easiest targets) Where do you tend to aim for?
Nose is great, if you can land it - but I don't ever recommend aiming for it purposely if the opponent is upright and mobile. Their head is on a pretty wide swivel... Too easy to miss. However, for some reason, when someone swings at your head, your instinct is to assume they're going for the nose - which is why the chin and neck work so well. They sway the head from side to side, but the chin just stays there.
From there, the solar plexus, then the groin, then the knee, then the kidney - in that order.
Anything "deeper" than that starts getting into pressure points, joint locks, impact blows from a hold or "clinch" and other stuff, and really, I'm not really comfortable going into any further detail without being in person with someone and showing them what the heck I'm talking about.
Khan wrote:
3) Uhm... I knew there was a third one, but I can't think of it at the time of typing this out. If I figure it out, I'll edit it in...
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